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	<title>Comments for Now, FOUR Years in China</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.db3.net/blog/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.db3.net/blog</link>
	<description>An American family living in China...for what was supposed to be two years</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on My Quote by Angela Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.db3.net/blog/2008/10/my-quote/#comment-6749</link>
		<dc:creator>Angela Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 03:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.db3.net/blog/?p=166#comment-6749</guid>
		<description>Hello David,  I think the quote is all yours.  The most similar -which isn't very- thing I've heard goes something like, "Experience doesn't build character, it reveals it."  

I've really enjoyed reading your blog (from begining to end) the last few days.  My husband was very recently and unexpectedly offered a transfer to Beijing with his company, Caterpillar.  For the last two years we have been living in Miami.  We haven't decided whether or not move to China.  We are flying to Beijing to investigate next week.

I was wondering if you have any advice for me.  We have two daughters, ages 10 and 12.  They are in the 4th and 7th grades.  We intend to checkout the neighborhoods of Yosemite, River Garden, Beijing Riveria, and Grand Hills.  We also plan to tour WAB and ISB schools.

I would be very interested in any suggestions you have.  Your writing sounds torn as to whether you would move to Beijing if you had to do it over again.  I'm very worried about the pollution. Look forward to hearing from you when you have a free moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello David,  I think the quote is all yours.  The most similar -which isn&#8217;t very- thing I&#8217;ve heard goes something like, &#8220;Experience doesn&#8217;t build character, it reveals it.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve really enjoyed reading your blog (from begining to end) the last few days.  My husband was very recently and unexpectedly offered a transfer to Beijing with his company, Caterpillar.  For the last two years we have been living in Miami.  We haven&#8217;t decided whether or not move to China.  We are flying to Beijing to investigate next week.</p>
<p>I was wondering if you have any advice for me.  We have two daughters, ages 10 and 12.  They are in the 4th and 7th grades.  We intend to checkout the neighborhoods of Yosemite, River Garden, Beijing Riveria, and Grand Hills.  We also plan to tour WAB and ISB schools.</p>
<p>I would be very interested in any suggestions you have.  Your writing sounds torn as to whether you would move to Beijing if you had to do it over again.  I&#8217;m very worried about the pollution. Look forward to hearing from you when you have a free moment.</p>
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		<title>Comment on FAQ re: &#8220;Now, Four Years&#8221; by Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.db3.net/blog/four-years/#comment-6745</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.db3.net/blog/index.php/four-years#comment-6745</guid>
		<description>Amber,
The things we would miss the most (if we didn't bring them) are heath and beauty products.  Many items we bring can be bought here but with a lot of the quality control issues and high cost, we prefer to bring our own.  These include toothpaste, soap, deodorant, moisturizers, vitamins, ibuprofen, cosmetics and a number of other things.  You should also bring "contingency" items that you would never consider needing in the U.S. like a head lice kit, wart removers, anti-fungals, etc. We've been lucky to not need these but we've seen enough friends kids have issues.

Tip:  If you buy brands like Neutrogena or Ponds at Costco in big multi-pacs, you need to remember that these are promoted as premium luxury items here and can run a risk of being taken by customs from your shipment.  6 bottles of our Neutrogena face wash mysteriously disappeared from our shipment and I'm sure the customs agent's wife was happy that night. We were able to buy a small bottle here but it cost 3 times as much here.  So bring these items in your suitcase.

The number one craving amongst Americans is for Mexican food.  Bring various Mexican seasonings and sauces if it's something you eat regularly in the U.S.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amber,<br />
The things we would miss the most (if we didn&#8217;t bring them) are heath and beauty products.  Many items we bring can be bought here but with a lot of the quality control issues and high cost, we prefer to bring our own.  These include toothpaste, soap, deodorant, moisturizers, vitamins, ibuprofen, cosmetics and a number of other things.  You should also bring &#8220;contingency&#8221; items that you would never consider needing in the U.S. like a head lice kit, wart removers, anti-fungals, etc. We&#8217;ve been lucky to not need these but we&#8217;ve seen enough friends kids have issues.</p>
<p>Tip:  If you buy brands like Neutrogena or Ponds at Costco in big multi-pacs, you need to remember that these are promoted as premium luxury items here and can run a risk of being taken by customs from your shipment.  6 bottles of our Neutrogena face wash mysteriously disappeared from our shipment and I&#8217;m sure the customs agent&#8217;s wife was happy that night. We were able to buy a small bottle here but it cost 3 times as much here.  So bring these items in your suitcase.</p>
<p>The number one craving amongst Americans is for Mexican food.  Bring various Mexican seasonings and sauces if it&#8217;s something you eat regularly in the U.S.</p>
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		<title>Comment on FAQ re: &#8220;Now, Four Years&#8221; by Amber</title>
		<link>http://www.db3.net/blog/four-years/#comment-6637</link>
		<dc:creator>Amber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.db3.net/blog/index.php/four-years#comment-6637</guid>
		<description>Hello! My husband and I are planning to move to Wuhan. We have been to Dalian twice for 6 weeks each time but we are at a loss for what to take when actually moving. Can you give us some packing advice? What does your wife miss the most? Thank you for your time!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello! My husband and I are planning to move to Wuhan. We have been to Dalian twice for 6 weeks each time but we are at a loss for what to take when actually moving. Can you give us some packing advice? What does your wife miss the most? Thank you for your time!</p>
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		<title>Comment on FAQ re: &#8220;Now, Four Years&#8221; by Melissa</title>
		<link>http://www.db3.net/blog/four-years/#comment-6538</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 15:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.db3.net/blog/index.php/four-years#comment-6538</guid>
		<description>Hi David and family,
I've been following your blog spot since 2007 because I moved to Shanghai with my family of 4 in Jan. 2008.  It's been great to hear of your "challenges" before we got here and to imagine what life would be like here.  Now, it's interesting to hear of your experience being here 2 more years ahead of us.  I can see the "phases" now that an expat goes thru during the post here.  I think we are in the "cultural awareness" phase but my kids are still in the "shock" phase.  How's your daughter adjusting?  
I have an 11 and 13 year old who are missing the "superficial" things from the USA. (Krispy Kreme, Cinemark movies with butter popcorn, etc...) I can't seem to make them appreciate that we are experiencing something not everyone gets to do here. Anyway, we are hoping for a good year and school starts on Monday.  We need a routine for sure.  
Hope your family is well and keep up the posting!  
Melissa Owen
Shanghai</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi David and family,<br />
I&#8217;ve been following your blog spot since 2007 because I moved to Shanghai with my family of 4 in Jan. 2008.  It&#8217;s been great to hear of your &#8220;challenges&#8221; before we got here and to imagine what life would be like here.  Now, it&#8217;s interesting to hear of your experience being here 2 more years ahead of us.  I can see the &#8220;phases&#8221; now that an expat goes thru during the post here.  I think we are in the &#8220;cultural awareness&#8221; phase but my kids are still in the &#8220;shock&#8221; phase.  How&#8217;s your daughter adjusting?<br />
I have an 11 and 13 year old who are missing the &#8220;superficial&#8221; things from the USA. (Krispy Kreme, Cinemark movies with butter popcorn, etc&#8230;) I can&#8217;t seem to make them appreciate that we are experiencing something not everyone gets to do here. Anyway, we are hoping for a good year and school starts on Monday.  We need a routine for sure.<br />
Hope your family is well and keep up the posting!<br />
Melissa Owen<br />
Shanghai</p>
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		<title>Comment on April Fools! by cl</title>
		<link>http://www.db3.net/blog/2007/04/april-fools/#comment-5249</link>
		<dc:creator>cl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.db3.net/blog/index.php/archives/2007/04/06/april-fools#comment-5249</guid>
		<description>thanks for giving me the anwer "I want to hear".I've anyway more or less decided to take the job IF I'm offerred. Still waiting for the second interview. It was been a week since the first one but it feels like I've waited for a month!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for giving me the anwer &#8220;I want to hear&#8221;.I&#8217;ve anyway more or less decided to take the job IF I&#8217;m offerred. Still waiting for the second interview. It was been a week since the first one but it feels like I&#8217;ve waited for a month!</p>
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		<title>Comment on April Fools! by Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.db3.net/blog/2007/04/april-fools/#comment-5224</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.db3.net/blog/index.php/archives/2007/04/06/april-fools#comment-5224</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the compliment!

I think a few years of exposure is probably worth the experience.  I have a genetic history of early-death-by-lung-cancer and still thought it would be worth it even if I shaved a couple years off the end. I hope in the end, I still feel that way ;-).

But bringing young children here is definitely a measured choice.  Kids are probably much more resilient than adults.  Our daughter had asthma in the US and it isn't much worse here.  It even seems to be getting better.  I'm even starting to think that a little bit of exposure to a dirty environment is a good thing as long as you don't live in it forever.

Also, the first year's pollution was severe which has permanently tainted our perceptions of the pollution.  The most noxious fumes seem to come from the surrounding villages where each home burns a coal pellet every night to stay warm.  These are big coal particles and can be filtered out with a HEPA filter.

I won't be held liable for any future medical conditions if you decide to come, but *I* think it's a worthwhile endeavor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the compliment!</p>
<p>I think a few years of exposure is probably worth the experience.  I have a genetic history of early-death-by-lung-cancer and still thought it would be worth it even if I shaved a couple years off the end. I hope in the end, I still feel that way ;-).</p>
<p>But bringing young children here is definitely a measured choice.  Kids are probably much more resilient than adults.  Our daughter had asthma in the US and it isn&#8217;t much worse here.  It even seems to be getting better.  I&#8217;m even starting to think that a little bit of exposure to a dirty environment is a good thing as long as you don&#8217;t live in it forever.</p>
<p>Also, the first year&#8217;s pollution was severe which has permanently tainted our perceptions of the pollution.  The most noxious fumes seem to come from the surrounding villages where each home burns a coal pellet every night to stay warm.  These are big coal particles and can be filtered out with a HEPA filter.</p>
<p>I won&#8217;t be held liable for any future medical conditions if you decide to come, but *I* think it&#8217;s a worthwhile endeavor.</p>
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		<title>Comment on April Fools! by cl</title>
		<link>http://www.db3.net/blog/2007/04/april-fools/#comment-5219</link>
		<dc:creator>cl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.db3.net/blog/index.php/archives/2007/04/06/april-fools#comment-5219</guid>
		<description>Hi, I'm considering (rather, being considered) to take up a position in Beijing.Then I came across your blog. Your previous post made me think that Beijing must be a great place to live in since you are willing to sign the 5-year contract.... ok, I was the one of the April fool suckers...

My greatest concern (if I get the job) is with the pollution, as you have pointed out as your "politically correct answer". I've a 1yr old daughter and I'm not sure if it is the best thing for her to live in a heavily polluted city. However, the Beijing job is what I want for my career. If you are able to go back in time and decide once again, would you still go to Beijing (after experiencing the pollution in the city)?

btw, your blog is fantastic.There are so much info and it's fun to read!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, I&#8217;m considering (rather, being considered) to take up a position in Beijing.Then I came across your blog. Your previous post made me think that Beijing must be a great place to live in since you are willing to sign the 5-year contract&#8230;. ok, I was the one of the April fool suckers&#8230;</p>
<p>My greatest concern (if I get the job) is with the pollution, as you have pointed out as your &#8220;politically correct answer&#8221;. I&#8217;ve a 1yr old daughter and I&#8217;m not sure if it is the best thing for her to live in a heavily polluted city. However, the Beijing job is what I want for my career. If you are able to go back in time and decide once again, would you still go to Beijing (after experiencing the pollution in the city)?</p>
<p>btw, your blog is fantastic.There are so much info and it&#8217;s fun to read!</p>
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		<title>Comment on April Fools! by Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.db3.net/blog/2007/04/april-fools/#comment-5214</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 05:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.db3.net/blog/index.php/archives/2007/04/06/april-fools#comment-5214</guid>
		<description>In response to the previous comment, answering why I wouldn't stay that long.  Note that  I'm very careful to not say anything that would cause China to block access to my server.  

Before moving here, I thought I'd be able to live here forever too. I digress.

My short, politically correct answer is this in one word...

Pollution

My long answer is that I have a diminishing toleration for the fundamental problems relating to ethics, manners, hygiene and an appreciation of the things that make civilized cultures "civilized".  

But, maybe saying "nothing would make me stay here" is too strong.  I'm not that idealistic and I do have a price.   And again, this is my state of mind at the 1.5 year mark.  Most people we know who last more than 3, end up staying for 5 more.  Also, the way this world looks to a CEO may be very different than the one I see. 

There is a 3rd year package from my corporation which will be a "real" package rather than a hybrid deal with a school.  It might make my viewpoint change too.

But right now, it sucks to live in China.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to the previous comment, answering why I wouldn&#8217;t stay that long.  Note that  I&#8217;m very careful to not say anything that would cause China to block access to my server.  </p>
<p>Before moving here, I thought I&#8217;d be able to live here forever too. I digress.</p>
<p>My short, politically correct answer is this in one word&#8230;</p>
<p>Pollution</p>
<p>My long answer is that I have a diminishing toleration for the fundamental problems relating to ethics, manners, hygiene and an appreciation of the things that make civilized cultures &#8220;civilized&#8221;.  </p>
<p>But, maybe saying &#8220;nothing would make me stay here&#8221; is too strong.  I&#8217;m not that idealistic and I do have a price.   And again, this is my state of mind at the 1.5 year mark.  Most people we know who last more than 3, end up staying for 5 more.  Also, the way this world looks to a CEO may be very different than the one I see. </p>
<p>There is a 3rd year package from my corporation which will be a &#8220;real&#8221; package rather than a hybrid deal with a school.  It might make my viewpoint change too.</p>
<p>But right now, it sucks to live in China.</p>
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		<title>Comment on April Fools! by maldives</title>
		<link>http://www.db3.net/blog/2007/04/april-fools/#comment-5199</link>
		<dc:creator>maldives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2007 07:34:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.db3.net/blog/index.php/archives/2007/04/06/april-fools#comment-5199</guid>
		<description>Hi,
Curious as to "why nothing would make you stay (in China) that long". I just finished reading China CEO.  Ok, granted these people have all the true expatriate perks, probably all of your april fools joke perks and more.  In the book, it states that not one of the 20+ foreign CEOs want to leave China.    Perhaps I need to read more of your blog to learn why, but I thought I would ask.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,<br />
Curious as to &#8220;why nothing would make you stay (in China) that long&#8221;. I just finished reading China CEO.  Ok, granted these people have all the true expatriate perks, probably all of your april fools joke perks and more.  In the book, it states that not one of the 20+ foreign CEOs want to leave China.    Perhaps I need to read more of your blog to learn why, but I thought I would ask.</p>
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		<title>Comment on April Fools! by Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.db3.net/blog/2007/04/april-fools/#comment-5110</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Apr 2007 12:14:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.db3.net/blog/index.php/archives/2007/04/06/april-fools#comment-5110</guid>
		<description>nice one!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nice one!</p>
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